Questions and Comments on some central Mo caves

[ThumYorky]

New user here. I was bitten by the spelunking bug about a month ago. Using the Caves of Missouri copy in the MU database and old topos, I've been adding markers to Google Earth and scouting out/exploring caves in the area. So far I've added all those listed in Phelps county and I'm about 1/3rd away through Pulaski county. I decided to buy the book and I'll be getting that in the mail later today. Anyways.

Hanley Cave, anyone else been here? Super awesome, but short, cave. It's unmarked and in MTNF so it's both open to the public yet fairly well preserved. As of two days ago I also discovered another cave about 75 yards away that requires crawling into and is completely collapsed. Have yet to explore the crooks and crannies. The whole area is pretty sweet.

Renaud Cave. Just ran up to the entrance. I was by myself so I just wanted to make sure I knew exactly where it was. Has anyone been here?

Gourd Creek. The entrance is WOW. Highly recommend checking out the entrance. Probably the biggest entrance in central MO. Unfortunately the cave is pretty much trashed. It's not very long either.

Pillman Cave. You can see this cave up on a bluff heading north on J about 10 miles from I-44. Have yet to climb up to it. Anyone been in it? I've heard it's short.

Hamilton Cave. Another MTNF cave. I've been out twice and have yet to find it. If someone here has been to it and knows its precise location, I would love to know. Book describes some pretty cool rooms.

Anyone know anything about/been in these caves?
Spencer
McCormick
Muench
Mud
Onyx (the one by slaughter sink)
Bruce
Point Bluff Caves

[PANIC! on the Titanic]

Do you go to school at S&T? I just graduated from there with my masters and I've been independently doing exactly what you're doing now for several years. Here's what I know:

Hanley Cave, anyone else been here? Super awesome, but short, cave.

Yes, short n sweet.

As of two days ago I also discovered another cave about 75 yards away that requires crawling into and is completely collapsed.

Sounds like Western Turkey Cave. It was just recently (winter 2015) shown to be part of Hanley actually.

If you go up stream about a quarter mile, you'll find Arches 'cave' (not really a cave, more of an arch and a tunnel eroded in the limestone). Follow the waterfall up to a source in another smaller cave I believe is Unnamed #3. Entrance is like 2' x 1' and it's all crawl in water. Fun Fun.

Renaud Cave

Yeah, ends not too far back (~450ft) in some breakdown.

Gourd Creek

A site popular with locals, and was very popular with aboriginal occupation, apparently. Tons of artifacts found in and around the area.

Pillman Cave

Excellent View from the mouth of this one. Goes back about 250 ft then you hit breakdown blockade. Word on the street is it used to go back way further.

Hamilton Cave.

I'll have to pm you about this one, as I'm not in the business of publicly releasing cave locations to anyone. This is a cool cave, but it can be tricky to find. It's not where you'd think a cave would be. You can spend about 2 hours in there, and don't do what I did and rope ladder down the waterfall, it's not worth it. You get cold, wet and disappointed.

Spencer - Never been
McCormick - Gated, used to house thousands of minerals from the geology department. Ask me about them in a PM.
Muench - working on it
Onyx (the one by slaughter sink) - Gated, although Saltpeter #3 isn't too far away...
Point Bluff Caves - They're lame. Easy to get to, worth seeing MAYBE once.

[ThumYorky]

Funny you ask. I'm actually attending a community college in preparation of going to S&T. Pinching pennies, you know. What did you get your masters in?

Kind of glad to hear that about the Point Bluff Caves. They're so close to the road, but clearly "off limits" per many no-trespassing signs.

As far as Muench, I haven't attempted it yet, but from my drive-by's it seemed like it would be easy to get to? There's that gravel lot just to the left of the road after the exit. Seems like it's a short walk from there, but I don't know how accurate my map marker is.

Visited the entrance to Indian Bluff Cave a few days ago (again, alone, so I didn't enter). Looks pretty cool.

You get cold, wet and disappointed.

Speaking of such, have you heard of any other passages past the end of Hanley cave? There's clearly some space where the stream flows from, but I wasn't in the mood of getting soaked at the moment to try and climb up.

[PANIC! on the Titanic]

Got my master's in geology, and caves are my bread n butter yo. Now that it's warmed up a bit I've been doing a lot more hiking in what little free time I have to find more obscure caves, primarily in MTNF and down at Paddy Creek. Paddy Creek is such an awesome place, you should go!

Muench is Pretty much right where you're thinking, south of that lot. And it's impressively long too, like a mile and a half I think. But it's so close to the house I'd want to get permission first. That's what I'm working on currently.

As far as Hanley, the end of traversable passage is right there at the top of the waterfall, so basically what you see is it. However, on your way back out you can climb up the flowstone shelf and semi spiral up through some really nice formations until the passage gets choked out by flowstone and stalactites. Idk if you did that or not but if you haven't do it next time.

I have some threads on here regarding a couple other caves like Poole Hollow and maybe McCormick, I dont remember. You can search for em, a lot of it is in the Rolla megathread. Check it.


If you want some projects to work on, I can send you some possible cave locations I've been unsuccessful at finding and you can go look. Some are quite frustrating because they have descriptions, sound awesome, have some vague location or just aren't where they are described as being and you never find them. Lamar cave being one of them (look it up in Caves of Missouri). I've looked for that one 3 times with no prevail. I hate it. I hate that cave. Last time I went looking a couple weeks ago I ran into a whole bunch of wild pigs out in the woods

[ThumYorky]

master's in geology

I feel like we could have very long talks. Geology, Forestry, and Meteorology were all subjects I was considering majoring in. I then realized my love for the natural world was fairly spread out, so I decided to be a teacher. However my passion is definitely forestry/conservation. I'll definitely be a teacher out of college, but hopefully someday I'll wind up wearing MDC green.

Let me know how you do on getting permission for Muench! The book talks highly of it.

As far as Hanley, the end of traversable passage is right there at the top of the waterfall, so basically what you see is it. However, on your way back out you can climb up the flowstone shelf and semi spiral up through some really nice formations until the passage gets choked out by flowstone and stalactites. Idk if you did that or not but if you haven't do it next time.

Yup, went up there last time. One of the best parts. That main chamber is high enough that it's completely untouched from vandals. Being really new to this whole caving thing, that chamber took my breath away. It was then I realized caving isn't going to be a short "Spring 2016" thing but a lifelong passion.

Yeah the book mentions Lamar Cave's entrance being a "4 foot crevice"; can't imagine it being easy to find! Good luck on that one and maybe I'll go out there sometime and look around as well. I don't have any rope/repelling experience so that cave is out of my league as of right now, but I'm sure it'd be fun to find. Definitely hit me up with those other caves you haven't found yet! Looking for/finding the caves is half of the joy.

[PANIC! on the Titanic]

One of my favorite things ever is talking geology! Just ask any of my friends at which I nerd rage frequently about rocks.

Here's the little Unnamed #3 Cave that's just up the creek from hanley:


I went in about a body length and a half and said you know, i've been dry all day why stop being that now? Out I came.

It never gets any bigger, but never got any smaller either. And it made a corner and kept on going.

[ThumYorky]

That cave looks like a lot of fun on a hot summer day when the cold water feels great. Looks like I need to do more exploring along that creek.

[ThumYorky]

Hey Panic, we finally found Hamilton. We weren't prepared for just how much clay is in that cave lol. It's more of a cave that you travel through to conquer instead of admire. I'm interested in its formation/collapse.

We had lots of fun though and came out quite literally caked in clay. Do you remember there being a clay molded penis in the back? It's a beautiful creation. I took a photo. I commend whoever built it.

[PANIC! on the Titanic]

Do you remember there being a clay molded penis in the back? It's a beautiful creation. I took a photo. I commend whoever built it.

That would be mine

[PANIC! on the Titanic]

[ThumYorky]

Hahaha, great job on it. The vein was a nice touch. I considered taking it back to the house and firing it in the oven. What an awesome centerpiece it would make!

[PANIC! on the Titanic]

If you go to Roubidoux cave, rumor has it there are more very similar pieces of art...
Like a LOT more...

[mindwaave]

If you go to Roubidoux cave, rumor has it there are more very similar pieces of art...
Like a LOT more...

Can confirm. Real horrorshow.

[ThumYorky]

Two questions about Onondaga.

1. Is Cathedral Cave worth the trip? Seems like if I went on a Sunday morning there'd be a good chance it would just be me and the tour guide which sounds pretty cool. Bretz's chapter on the cave is pretty awesome.

2. What is this cave? http://i.imgur.com/YzLNgb5.jpg
Is it another entrance to the same cave system or is it its own system? And is it gated?

[PANIC! on the Titanic]

1. Is Cathedral Cave worth the trip?

Cathedral cave is my personal favorite of all time, simply because I understand what all went into the cave formation, and it has pretty much everything a cave should have: A good, varied display of speleothems, fossils, pits, flowing water, and even a 'bat graveyard' in the very back (not seen on tours, takes a few hours to get to) which contains the skeletons of several hundreds, if not thousands, of indiana bats. Nobody knows why they went there to die.

Sunday tours can be a toss up - either nobody there because they all went home, or a few people trying to get a cave tour in before they leave the campground. I'd say go for it.

What is this cave? http://i.imgur.com/YzLNgb5.jpg
Is it another entrance to the same cave system or is it its own system? And is it gated?

That's Rimbach's cave, and it's not much of anything other than a 25 ft little tunnel in the bottom of a sinkhole. Not gated last I was there. It was originally an attempt in the 1930s to dig into Missouri Caverns (the north half of Onondaga, marked by the stone ruins on the side of the road there). They abandoned it and tried again closer to the road and were successful.