Abandoned Subway Tunnel Project Under Washington Ave.

Urban exploration in St. Louis, Missouri
ohten
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Re: Abandoned Subway Tunnel Project Under Washington Ave.

Post by ohten »

redox wrote:wuts that map of illinois about ohten? I cn't make out anything.
Illinois Terminal Railway trackage. Basically you could catch an electrified interurban downtown and take it to Champaign or all the way to the Indiana border. Wish we had that now.

I can't seem to find a link to it.
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Chris
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Re: Abandoned Subway Tunnel Project Under Washington Ave.

Post by Chris »

There was was never a subway or subway station in Affton.
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Re: Abandoned Subway Tunnel Project Under Washington Ave.

Post by Chris »

As for the tunnel under Washington, it wouldn't surprise me if such a project was attempted at one time. Both Wright/Arcade and Dillard's were built with access to the TRRA tunnels (which until Metrolink was opened in the 90s NEVER carried mass-transit/public transportation)...but these access points were never used. They weren't like loading docks, either, they were clearly built with passengers in mind.

I'm wondering if possibly there was an intention of running some sort of commuter trains down there that never materialized and may have included extending the tunnel down Washington. I would imagine if any tunnel under Washington was ever attempted, it most likely would have been an extension of the existing TRRA tunnel rather than an isolated section to be connected at a later date. It's not apparent that anyone ever tried to extend the tunnel where it turns under 8th street.
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Re: Abandoned Subway Tunnel Project Under Washington Ave.

Post by ohten »

As I said... look up the Illinois Terminal Railroad. Their station was in the basement of the Globe Democrat building. The tunnel went to there with a turnaround loop that is now under that plaza along Tucker. ITC and the TRRA were rival entities, hence the two tunnels were never designed to connect.
Chris wrote:As for the tunnel under Washington, it wouldn't surprise me if such a project was attempted at one time. Both Wright/Arcade and Dillard's were built with access to the TRRA tunnels (which until Metrolink was opened in the 90s NEVER carried mass-transit/public transportation)...but these access points were never used. They weren't like loading docks, either, they were clearly built with passengers in mind.

I'm wondering if possibly there was an intention of running some sort of commuter trains down there that never materialized and may have included extending the tunnel down Washington. I would imagine if any tunnel under Washington was ever attempted, it most likely would have been an extension of the existing TRRA tunnel rather than an isolated section to be connected at a later date. It's not apparent that anyone ever tried to extend the tunnel where it turns under 8th street.
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Re: Abandoned Subway Tunnel Project Under Washington Ave.

Post by redox »

Chris is a bigtime rail nerd ohten, he knows all about the old ITR St Louis/Illinois system etc. Thanks for clarifying though. I have wondered if the Tucker tunnel may extend further south, but didn't intend to include that tunnel in my speculations here. No, I just started this thread hoping something interesting might be dredged up :P There were plans in the 20' and 30's to construct a subway system under the city.
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Re: Abandoned Subway Tunnel Project Under Washington Ave.

Post by Chris »

Yes, thanks Redox.

Trust me, I'm well aware of the TRRA and IT roles in St. Louis history. :mrgreen:
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Re: Abandoned Subway Tunnel Project Under Washington Ave.

Post by ohten »

Chris wrote:Yes, thanks Redox.

Trust me, I'm well aware of the TRRA and IT roles in St. Louis history. :mrgreen:
Sorry, I defer to greater nerdry :wink:

I've heard about the subway plans, but as far as my research has indicated, nothing ever happened. Given the robustness of United Railway's streetcar network, it's likely that it would have been a streetcar tunnel system like Philly, Cleveland, or Newark.

What would be interesting would be if any buildings built around the time had vaults built banking on the future construction of an adjacent tunnel.

Chris- do you know if there were more freight tunnels in the Cupples Station area. I keep running across references that seem to indicate more loading/track access than just the TRRA/Metrolink tunnel.

I've also heard there are still lower platforms accessible in the Union Station/PO complex
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redox
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Re: Abandoned Subway Tunnel Project Under Washington Ave.

Post by redox »

ohten wrote:What would be interesting would be if any buildings built around the time had vaults built banking on the future construction of an adjacent tunnel.
That said, this was submitted by the the city planning commissoin in 1920. St Louis may have rivaled Chicago had they been able to build effective subways and bridges sooner.
here's a link to the entire document: subway plan

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RE: Abandoned Subway Tunnel Project Under Washington Ave.

Post by ohten »

Thanks for sharing that! Here's the "subway" at union station from the 1896 Whipple. Note the dashed tunnels as well as the extensive tracks at left disappearing underneath the surface trackage.

[click to enlarge]
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the_p0ssum
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Re: Abandoned Subway Tunnel Project Under Washington Ave.

Post by the_p0ssum »

Old thread resurrection, but there's a YouTube video here that shows the old switching engine working from the tunnel to the old Globe building out onto the McKinnley tressel in 2002. As the engine was later sold in 2004 this is pretty rare. Check out the description on the video - very detailed!
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Re: Abandoned Subway Tunnel Project Under Washington Ave.

Post by paul06660 »

the_p0ssum wrote:Old thread resurrection, but there's a YouTube video here that shows the old switching engine working from the tunnel to the old Globe building out onto the McKinnley tressel in 2002. As the engine was later sold in 2004 this is pretty rare. Check out the description on the video - very detailed!
Interesting you can use historical imagery on Google Earth and see what the line and tracks looked like over the years.
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