English's Cave - oil on canvas 1840

Urban exploration in St. Louis, Missouri
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SubLunar
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RE: English's Cave - oil on canvas 1840

Post by SubLunar »

The streets have changed, etc.
Last edited by SubLunar on Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nicotti
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Re: RE: English's Cave - oil on canvas 1840

Post by Nicotti »

SubLunar wrote:Nods to the OP..
Not to be confused with the OPP.
More online investigation than onsite exploration these days.

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SubLunar
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RE: English's Cave - oil on canvas 1840

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A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.
Last edited by SubLunar on Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
the_p0ssum
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Re: English

Post by the_p0ssum »

Assuming the point they did the survey off of is still there and they didn't have to arbitrarily make a new one (which I've seen before), I totally agree with the possum.
I've never seen that. I've seen other reference points then used & some were quite far away, but I've never seen a surveyor just make up their own. However my experience is based on rural surveys. In urban areas, especially old ones where some holdings may have been described in Spanish arpents and rods & chains, a more modern survey might not have much to work with. Still, they should always start off of something fixed, such as the section point, 1/4 section point, etc.

With that said, survey-attached deeds might still be a good source of the cave entrance. I'm just not sure what STL has available to the public, though.
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VanHammersly
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RE: English's Cave - oil on canvas 1840

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In another issue the RFT revealed an entrance on public property.
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Nicotti
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Re: RE: English's Cave - oil on canvas 1840

Post by Nicotti »

SubLunar wrote:A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.
Ever feel like you're a character in the movie 'Dark City'.
More online investigation than onsite exploration these days.

“My dear fellow, who will let you?”
“That’s not the point. The point is, who will stop me?”
-Ayn Rand
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phels
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Re: RE: English's Cave - oil on canvas 1840

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VanHammersly wrote:In another issue the RFT revealed an entrance on public property.
One of these articles?

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2007-10- ... ging-deep/

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2007-09- ... t-passage/

I skimmed through these and didn't see a definite yes on a location for an entrance.

By the way, hi, everyone. I'm new to the forums.
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SubLunar
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RE: English's Cave - oil on canvas 1840

Post by SubLunar »

Welcome!

And yes I've seen those too. Nothing definitive in there.
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Re: English

Post by ohten »

I assume you've seen this map? Hubert seems to be spot on with this one. Went by and there's a huge tree in the back yard.
SubLunar wrote:
the_p0ssum wrote:

Problem is, we've all scoured every available real estate record or map that we could get our eyes or hands on in the past several years. There is no way to definitively pinpoint the exact entrance. There is no X marks the spot. And maps from that time don't exactly line up perfectly with the streets of today either.
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Re: English

Post by redox »

this is nearly common knowledge, but this is a public forum sheesh wtf. ohten..
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Re: English

Post by ohten »

redox wrote:this is nearly common knowledge, but this is a public forum sheesh wtf
Yeah, that map is contemporaneous from when English was a wine cellar (after the beer garden, after the cholera interment). My hunch is that the entrance was actually filled in when they built the scraper houses up against the old wine cellar sometime in the 1950's. I guess we'll know if that tree ever goes over in a big storm.
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Re: English

Post by redox »

ohten wrote:
redox wrote:this is nearly common knowledge, but this is a public forum sheesh wtf
Yeah, that map is contemporaneous from when English was a wine cellar (after the beer garden, after the cholera interment). My hunch is that the entrance was actually filled in when they built the scraper houses up against the old wine cellar sometime in the 1950's. I guess we'll know if that tree ever goes over in a big storm.
do the landowners a good turn and delete the map
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Re: English

Post by ohten »

Sorry, hadn't been on the board in a while. I see SubLunar beat me to it.

I carefully cropped out all street names and location info so I doubt anyone could have successfully used that fragment who didn't already know where it was. Not that anyone'd be able to get in that way without a bulldozer.


redox wrote:
ohten wrote:
redox wrote:this is nearly common knowledge, but this is a public forum sheesh wtf
Yeah, that map is contemporaneous from when English was a wine cellar (after the beer garden, after the cholera interment). My hunch is that the entrance was actually filled in when they built the scraper houses up against the old wine cellar sometime in the 1950's. I guess we'll know if that tree ever goes over in a big storm.
do the landowners a good turn and delete the map
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redox
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RE: English's Cave - oil on canvas 1840

Post by redox »

the_p0ssum wrote: From this RFT article:

"a tree over the entrance, which Brandt estimates is 50 years old and fifteen feet in diameter. "
Seriously? A 15 foot wide tree? That's a typographical error. There are no trees that damn big for well over a thousand miles in any direction. I digress..sorry
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RE: English's Cave - oil on canvas 1840

Post by bluephi115 »

assuming they meant 15 ft as in measuring around the tree.
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