original springfield lake

Urban exploration in Springfield, Missouri
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lolabelle
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original springfield lake

Post by lolabelle »

Anyone heard of an "original springfield lake" up around bois d'arc? It's currently on private property, maybe owned by a big horse farming family...
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RE: original springfield lake

Post by ASK »

Possibly this? It's the biggest body of water I could spot out near Bois D'Arc. I use to drive through here all the time when I lived in the area and remember seeing a large body of water through the trees from the top of the hill by the church.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Clear ... 2dae94a9d8
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Re: original springfield lake

Post by lolabelle »

yep thats the one I'm talking about
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RE: original springfield lake

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Why exactly do you call it the original Springfield Lake? I can't find any specific things designating that as Springfield Lake, and it seems pretty far from anywhere that used to be called Springfield.

Which brings me to another point. I find it hard to figure out exactly where Springfield originally was. I've heard in just general conversation that it was originally named by a farmer just north east of the Sequiota Park Cave, John Polk Campbell. That location makes sense, because plaques at Nathanael Greene Park claimed his house was moved when construction on U.S. 65 started. At the time, that cave was Springdale cave, and I think that spring is supposedly the one we're named after.

Earlier in 1838, you can find mention of the trail of tears going through Springfield on the Old Wire Road. You can still find that on Golden Ave. where there is a map posted under the James River Expressway bridge that shows the road going nowhere near Sequiota Park, and that side of town was an entirely different city, though I'm forgetting it's name now.

I know later when the railroad got big, the bulk of the city was in "North Springfield" where the square is along with the railroad tracks.

Does anyone have some cool resources to figure out where Springfield was and when. Clear Water Park seems pretty far from where I thought the city originated, so it seems odd to call that the original Springfield Lake.
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Re: original springfield lake

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Wasn't the area by Sequiota called Galloway and Springfield swallowed it up?
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RE: original springfield lake

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Galloway was there too. Some towns were extremely close in the 1800's. I know I ran into it in Kansas City all the time as well. A lot of the bars are in Westport. If you go literally two blocks over, you start noticing all of these plaques for Roanoke. If you look it up, it turns out they used to be separate cities only a few blocks apart. The city I was thinking of where James River Expressway runs over Golden Avenue was Brookline.

I think part of my problem is that history books written recently treat the area as if Springfield was it's current size. What few maps I can find make it look like some of the areas being described as Springfield were actually different cities that no longer exist, but the old maps I've seen aren't very detailed, so it's hard to tell if the scale is just off. It does look like the Trail of Tears history seems to happen before Springfield was even named Springfield, so they have to be retroactively saying the trail of tears ran through Springfield. I might run by the History Museum this weekend and see if they have any more details.
Last edited by RedRook on Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: original springfield lake

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And saying Brookline was that far east isn't that easy either. Brookline when Republic formed was closer to Republic. When I was looking into that abandoned church by South Creek, it claimed that church was in Brookline, and you see Brookline in names around that area. I think there was some drift in exactly where these towns were as populations changed.
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Re: original springfield lake

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I called it "original springfield lake" bc that's what someone told me. Not by any means saying I believe that. They could easily be mixing this, and Fulbright Springs up. I believe that Fulbright Springs was the original PUBLIC water works for Springfield. Or perphaps they are even confused with McDaniel Lake (created in 1929).

And Springfield was originally settled VERY near what is now Founders Park. If I remember right the original spring that drew the settlers is believed to be under the National Audio building.
Most of the original settling of Springfield happened in the downtown area, near Jordan Creek. Of course several small townships would pop up nearby, in what is now a few minutes drive, but back then was a days walk or a several hour horse ride.

The land around Sequiota Park was originally settled as Galloway (township) and was annexed into the city in the 1970s. It really wasn't all THAT long ago that even anything as far south as Battlefield was considered the country. My college roomate's dad remembers when Battlefield was just a dirt road in from Rogersville.

But back to my original post...anyone know anything about that lake?! :)
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RE: original springfield lake

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Yeah, I see there is a registered marker near water street now for Campbell's original farmstead.

http://thelibrary.org/lochist/historicalsites/2.cfm

Also found that the Gray/Campbell house was moved when the "when the Kansas and James River Expressways were about to be constructed." which has me turned about again. Are they saying it was at Kansas Expressway and James River, or are they saying it was moved when those were constructed. Is the Gray/Campbell house from the down town marker? It wasn't moved that long ago.

http://graycampbellfarmstead.org/index.html
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RE: original springfield lake

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And I grew up in the neighborhood right above Sequiota Park. A lot of what I've been saying goes back to things I was told as far back as 5-6 years old. Looking even slightly deeper, it all looks like bull. Weird we had a myth about our corner of town being the founding place.
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Re: RE: original springfield lake

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RedRook wrote:Why exactly do you call it the original Springfield Lake? I can't find any specific things designating that as Springfield Lake, and it seems pretty far from anywhere that used to be called Springfield.

Which brings me to another point. I find it hard to figure out exactly where Springfield originally was. I've heard in just general conversation that it was originally named by a farmer just north east of the Sequiota Park Cave, John Polk Campbell. That location makes sense, because plaques at Nathanael Greene Park claimed his house was moved when construction on U.S. 65 started. At the time, that cave was Springdale cave, and I think that spring is supposedly the one we're named after.

Earlier in 1838, you can find mention of the trail of tears going through Springfield on the Old Wire Road. You can still find that on Golden Ave. where there is a map posted under the James River Expressway bridge that shows the road going nowhere near Sequiota Park, and that side of town was an entirely different city, though I'm forgetting it's name now.

I know later when the railroad got big, the bulk of the city was in "North Springfield" where the square is along with the railroad tracks.

Does anyone have some cool resources to figure out where Springfield was and when. Clear Water Park seems pretty far from where I thought the city originated, so it seems odd to call that the original Springfield Lake.
North Springfield was located north of Division Street. It never went south to Park Central. The Springfield Yards are along Division.

Original Springfield was in the area of Founders Park, along Olive Street. The first store was where the old Frisco offices (later Landmark Building, now apartments, I think) are on Jefferson and Olive. The first cabin was reportedly near where Tindle Mills is located, north of the Jordan Valley.
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Re: original springfield lake

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lolabelle wrote:I called it "original springfield lake" bc that's what someone told me. Not by any means saying I believe that. They could easily be mixing this, and Fulbright Springs up. I believe that Fulbright Springs was the original PUBLIC water works for Springfield. Or perphaps they are even confused with McDaniel Lake (created in 1929).

And Springfield was originally settled VERY near what is now Founders Park. If I remember right the original spring that drew the settlers is believed to be under the National Audio building.
Most of the original settling of Springfield happened in the downtown area, near Jordan Creek. Of course several small townships would pop up nearby, in what is now a few minutes drive, but back then was a days walk or a several hour horse ride.

The land around Sequiota Park was originally settled as Galloway (township) and was annexed into the city in the 1970s. It really wasn't all THAT long ago that even anything as far south as Battlefield was considered the country. My college roomate's dad remembers when Battlefield was just a dirt road in from Rogersville.

But back to my original post...anyone know anything about that lake?! :)
When I was growing up in the '70s, Springfield stopped at Battlefield Rd. There was nothing but farm land south of there, except along Glenstone to where the old Clarion Hotel sits, and there were some businesses along Republic Road. The old High M Drive In Theatre was located just west of Broadway along M Highway (Republic Road).
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Re: RE: original springfield lake

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RedRook wrote:Yeah, I see there is a registered marker near water street now for Campbell's original farmstead.

http://thelibrary.org/lochist/historicalsites/2.cfm

Also found that the Gray/Campbell house was moved when the "when the Kansas and James River Expressways were about to be constructed." which has me turned about again. Are they saying it was at Kansas Expressway and James River, or are they saying it was moved when those were constructed. Is the Gray/Campbell house from the down town marker? It wasn't moved that long ago.

http://graycampbellfarmstead.org/index.html
That house was located on the farm south of town. It was never located in town.
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Re: original springfield lake

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RV driver wrote:
lolabelle wrote:I called it "original springfield lake" bc that's what someone told me. Not by any means saying I believe that. They could easily be mixing this, and Fulbright Springs up. I believe that Fulbright Springs was the original PUBLIC water works for Springfield. Or perphaps they are even confused with McDaniel Lake (created in 1929).

And Springfield was originally settled VERY near what is now Founders Park. If I remember right the original spring that drew the settlers is believed to be under the National Audio building.
Most of the original settling of Springfield happened in the downtown area, near Jordan Creek. Of course several small townships would pop up nearby, in what is now a few minutes drive, but back then was a days walk or a several hour horse ride.

The land around Sequiota Park was originally settled as Galloway (township) and was annexed into the city in the 1970s. It really wasn't all THAT long ago that even anything as far south as Battlefield was considered the country. My college roomate's dad remembers when Battlefield was just a dirt road in from Rogersville.

But back to my original post...anyone know anything about that lake?! :)
When I was growing up in the '70s, Springfield stopped at Battlefield Rd. There was nothing but farm land south of there, except along Glenstone to where the old Clarion Hotel sits, and there were some businesses along Republic Road. The old High M Drive In Theatre was located just west of Broadway along M Highway (Republic Road).
I some what remember a car dealership commercial from the 80's where they were "1 minute south of Springfield at 365 mph" or something like that. The dealership is inside the city limits now I believe.
More online investigation than onsite exploration these days.

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Re: original springfield lake

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Nicotti wrote: I some what remember a car dealership commercial from the 80's where they were "1 minute south of Springfield at 365 mph" or something like that. The dealership is inside the city limits now I believe.
That was Republic Ford. Still use that slogan sometimes. Grew up west of town, and the best way to the mall was cutting off 60 at the trailer park and taking the dirt road up to FF, then to the tail end of Battlefield, which was a two lane with an very steep hill on it.
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