Heavener Runestone

Urban exploration in Oklahoma
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songdogs09
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Heavener Runestone

Post by songdogs09 »

I had posted some info under my old, lost but not forgotten, screen name "betrumka" about the Heavener Runetsone in east central Oklahoma right outside of Heavener on Poteau Mountain.

Since that posting a few years ago I have done some more research, looked at both sides (and at times all 4 or 5 sides) of the arguments and I wrote up the following article:

I have visited the Heavener Runestone a few times myself and also done some research on it.

The monolith, what it says, who inscribed the runes, and when it was done is a subject of controversy. If you go to the park, which is really a nice state park, no doubt about that, the information provided by the Oklahoma State Parks Department at the top of the valley gives the academic and definite impression that the archaeology concerning the Heavener Runestone is settled. In fact it is not.

I know nothing about archaeology or about Norse linguistics and runes but here is the scenario that the state park lays out for its visitors. (Sarcasm has been added by me for emphasis and fun.)

Let’s begin with step # 1: Getting from Scandinavia via Iceland and Greenland to the northeastern Canadian coast. The Vikings would have found new land probably at Newfoundland (get it??). Then they would have travelled down the Atlantic coast of The New World.

Step #2: They then sailed/paddled south down along the peninsula of Florida, around the Florida Keys, up through the Gulf of Mexico, hanging a right at the Mississippi Delta.

Step # 3 Heading UPSTREAM on the mighty Mississippi River in a ship built before 1000 AD? (On a side note the Mississippi River flows SOUTH at a rate of 1.6 million gallons per second!) Most rivers flow from north to south, with one notable exception to be mentioned later. But in “Vinland” – present day North America - NO river rivals the power of the Mississippi River. Certainly the Vikings had never seen a river like it before in their homeland of Scandinavia.

Step # 4: Then after paddling upstream on the Mighty Mississippi some 500 + miles, the Vikings decided to hang a left at the confluence of the Arkansas River near what is today southwestern Arkansas. They would have traveled then on the Arkansas River about 160 miles (also upstream) until they reached the Poteau River.

Now the Poteau River also runs basically north to south BUT it is the only river in Oklahoma that flows north!! ...AND... the Vikings travel, once again, upstream because they want, or need, to go south on the Poteau. Poor Vikings!

Step #5: On their third upstream river the Vikings would have gone about 50 miles on the Poteau River. Granted, the Poteau River is no Mississippi or Arkansas River. In fact the US Geologic society refers to it as The Poteau River but classifies it as a “stream”.
http://ahps.srh.noaa.gov/images/ahps2/t ... no2_us.jpg

Step #6: Assuming that these weary sailors just happened to bring their boat ashore at the closest point to "Glome's Valley", it would have still put them about 10 miles walking distance from the Heavener stone, where they finally decided to make a claim to some land and they apparently claimed it for Glome.


Try it sometime with first millennium technology. It’s a piece of cake. Just 6 steps from Scandinavia to LeFlore County, Oklahoma.

In addition to this hypothetical journey there are problems with the runes. Some are (perhaps) turned backwards and it appears to be a mixture of two different kinds of runes. One scholar even said that it appears that whoever inscribed the runes did so with a mixture of knowledge from two different rune scripts or variants and for some reason combined them in the inscription.

A couple of the more influential “experts” are not archaeologists, historians or linguists, but rather hobbyists and one outspoken detractor from the Viking theory is a minister with a Doctor of Divinity degree.

The leader of the Vikings in Oklahoma crusade is without a doubt Gloria Farley. She is
the self educated expert on the Heavener Runestone and she was also instrumental in the building of a state park around the stone based on her theories.

Mrs. Farley believed at first that the inscription read “Gnomes Valley”, later said it could be “G. Nomedal” because Nomedal is apparently a common last name in Norway. Then even later Farley settled on a translation put forward by a Danish born and educated engineer, Dr. Richard Nielson. (His PhD is in Engineering.) Dr. Nielson believed the inscription read “Glomes Valley” and that seems to be the story that the state of Oklahoma bought when it decided to build a state park around the runestone.

One of the experts believes it is a runic cryptogram for a date (November 11th 1012).

Most Scandinavian philologists and historians have dismissed the Heavener Runestone as being from the 19th or even 20th century.

In the end the State of Oklahoma built a state park with Oklahoma tax payer money. They did so hoping to bring tourists in to visit and see a large, inscribed stone, which may or may not be what it claims to be; and it may in fact be an inscription made by much later European explorers who could have had a faulty but working knowledge of runes.

Gloria Farley’s book: http://www.amazon.com/Plain-Sight-Recor ... 80820080

Map of proposed journey from Norway to Heavener, Oklahoma: http://www.midwesternepigraphic.org/heavener03.jpg
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GlassCurtain
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Re: Heavener Runestone

Post by GlassCurtain »

I agree!
“I investigate things to complete my knowledge, my complete knowledge makes my thoughts sincere, my thoughts being sincere; my heart is pure.”

http://www.flickr.com/photos/glasscurtain/
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Re: Heavener Runestone

Post by GlassCurtain »

For some reason that last link in your post caused it not to show. Here you go.
songdogs09 wrote:I had posted some info under my old, lost but not forgotten, screen name "betrumka" about the Heavener Runetsone in east central Oklahoma right outside of Heavener on Poteau Mountain.

Since that posting a few years ago I have done some more research, looked at both sides (and at times all 4 or 5 sides) of the arguments and I wrote up the following article:

I have visited the Heavener Runestone a few times myself and also done some research on it.

The monolith, what it says, who inscribed the runes, and when it was done is a subject of controversy. If you go to the park, which is really a nice state park, no doubt about that, the information provided by the Oklahoma State Parks Department at the top of the valley gives the academic and definite impression that the archaeology concerning the Heavener Runestone is settled. In fact it is not.

I know nothing about archaeology or about Norse linguistics and runes but here is the scenario that the state park lays out for its visitors. (Sarcasm has been added by me for emphasis and fun.)

Let’s begin with step # 1: Getting from Scandinavia via Iceland and Greenland to the northeastern Canadian coast. The Vikings would have found new land probably at Newfoundland (get it??). Then they would have travelled down the Atlantic coast of The New World.

Step #2: They then sailed/paddled south down along the peninsula of Florida, around the Florida Keys, up through the Gulf of Mexico, hanging a right at the Mississippi Delta.

Step # 3 Heading UPSTREAM on the mighty Mississippi River in a ship built before 1000 AD? (On a side note the Mississippi River flows SOUTH at a rate of 1.6 million gallons per second!) Most rivers flow from north to south, with one notable exception to be mentioned later. But in “Vinland” – present day North America - NO river rivals the power of the Mississippi River. Certainly the Vikings had never seen a river like it before in their homeland of Scandinavia.

Step # 4: Then after paddling upstream on the Mighty Mississippi some 500 + miles, the Vikings decided to hang a left at the confluence of the Arkansas River near what is today southwestern Arkansas. They would have traveled then on the Arkansas River about 160 miles (also upstream) until they reached the Poteau River.

Now the Poteau River also runs basically north to south BUT it is the only river in Oklahoma that flows north!! ...AND... the Vikings travel, once again, upstream because they want, or need, to go south on the Poteau. Poor Vikings!

Step #5: On their third upstream river the Vikings would have gone about 50 miles on the Poteau River. Granted, the Poteau River is no Mississippi or Arkansas River. In fact the US Geologic society refers to it as The Poteau River but classifies it as a “stream”.
http://ahps.srh.noaa.gov/images/ahps2/t ... no2_us.jpg

Step #6: Assuming that these weary sailors just happened to bring their boat ashore at the closest point to "Glome's Valley", it would have still put them about 10 miles walking distance from the Heavener stone, where they finally decided to make a claim to some land and they apparently claimed it for Glome.


Try it sometime with first millennium technology. It’s a piece of cake. Just 6 steps from Scandinavia to LeFlore County, Oklahoma.

In addition to this hypothetical journey there are problems with the runes. Some are (perhaps) turned backwards and it appears to be a mixture of two different kinds of runes. One scholar even said that it appears that whoever inscribed the runes did so with a mixture of knowledge from two different rune scripts or variants and for some reason combined them in the inscription.

A couple of the more influential “experts” are not archaeologists, historians or linguists, but rather hobbyists and one outspoken detractor from the Viking theory is a minister with a Doctor of Divinity degree.

The leader of the Vikings in Oklahoma crusade is without a doubt Gloria Farley. She is
the self educated expert on the Heavener Runestone and she was also instrumental in the building of a state park around the stone based on her theories.

Mrs. Farley believed at first that the inscription read “Gnomes Valley”, later said it could be “G. Nomedal” because Nomedal is apparently a common last name in Norway. Then even later Farley settled on a translation put forward by a Danish born and educated engineer, Dr. Richard Nielson. (His PhD is in Engineering.) Dr. Nielson believed the inscription read “Glomes Valley” and that seems to be the story that the state of Oklahoma bought when it decided to build a state park around the runestone.

One of the experts believes it is a runic cryptogram for a date (November 11th 1012).

Most Scandinavian philologists and historians have dismissed the Heavener Runestone as being from the 19th or even 20th century.

In the end the State of Oklahoma built a state park with Oklahoma tax payer money. They did so hoping to bring tourists in to visit and see a large, inscribed stone, which may or may not be what it claims to be; and it may in fact be an inscription made by much later European explorers who could have had a faulty but working knowledge of runes.

Gloria Farley’s book: http://www.amazon.com/Plain-Sight-Recor ... 1880820080

Map of proposed journey from Norway to Heavener, Oklahoma:

http://www.midwesternepigraphic.org/heavener03.jpg
“I investigate things to complete my knowledge, my complete knowledge makes my thoughts sincere, my thoughts being sincere; my heart is pure.”

http://www.flickr.com/photos/glasscurtain/
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