What is "Going too far?"

KC77CJ7 · Post by **KC77CJ7** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:59 am

I am all about exploring new places, believe me I am, but an issue was raised. Is lock picking crossing the line? What is "going too far?" For those of us that have been to the 8th street tunnel, it's obvious someone was curious enough to make the entrance we have all used (which has been sealed I found out last night.) Was making that entrance crossing the line? Really, I want everyone to tell me what they think is ok, and what is not. I'm not going to say anybody is right or wrong, I'm just curious what you all think.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:28 am

personally i don't think i'd pick a lock to get in somewhere but i've heard of it being done and as long as you're not stealing or vandalizing i guess it's morally no worse than anything else we do.

gothstone · Post by **gothstone** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:51 am

If you can pick a lock without damageing it, I think its ok. Going further (bolt cutters) would NOT be cool.

Willard · Post by **Willard** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:18 am

gothstone wrote:If you can pick a lock without damageing it, I think its ok. Going further (bolt cutters) would NOT be cool.

I agree... and just to make my position more clear, any sort of proporty damage just to get in somewhere is going to far. If you get there and find that someone before you has already done the damage and paved the way to get in then you have no worries. There's nothing that you need to do to get in, the damage has already been done.

Do not, I repeat: DO NOT damage anything just to get into a place that is locked or sealed. The only exception to this rule could be if you know the building is going to be torn down in the near future (such as in a couple of weeks). It wouldn't make much of a difference then if you broke in to look around.

Post by **White Rabbit** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:47 am

I agree. I've picked locks to get into places, and I don't see anything wrong with it since you're not harming anything.

(Also, gonna move this to Main since it's not really specifically about KC.)

gimpface · Post by **gimpface** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:53 pm

If we're dealing with abandoned areas that nobody seems to give a shit about, I'm not above smashing a lock and replacing it with my own. Or picking it, but I'd just as soon replace it to have easy access next time. I would not do anything even remotely destructive to an occupied, active site.

gothstone · Post by **gothstone** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:01 am

The problem with that is determining what is truely abandoned. There are several areas here in KC the look and feel totaly abandoned. But after standing empty for years, suddenly someone comes back and turns it into a loft. Or in a few cases we later found out that the SWAT team uses them for practice. I'd have to say that if the lock is new enough that picking it takes any time or skill, you can't count on it being abandoned.

gimpface · Post by **gimpface** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:49 pm

I just trust my gut feeling about the place. If I'm wrong, oh well.

gothstone · Post by **gothstone** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:54 pm

NO, not oh well. If your wrong they will definately smash your lock. The will surely put on a better lock, and they might add other security. That means the rest of us may not have an oportunity to see it. Also, if they are pissed off enough, they may go as far as checking for your prints. Take nothing but photos and leave nothing but footprints (and I prefer not to leave those) is best. If they can't tell anyone was there than your safe. If you do any damage, even a lock on a building you think is compleatly abandoned, they will know, and it gives a bad image of UE. Besides, if you look hard enough, almost nothing is truely abandoned. Someone somewhere owns it, you never know when they might get the idea to check on it.

gimpface · Post by **gimpface** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:41 pm

gothstone wrote:NO, not oh well. If your wrong they will definately smash your lock. The will surely put on a better lock, and they might add other security. That means the rest of us may not have an oportunity to see it. Also, if they are pissed off enough, they may go as far as checking for your prints. Take nothing but photos and leave nothing but footprints (and I prefer not to leave those) is best. If they can't tell anyone was there than your safe. If you do any damage, even a lock on a building you think is compleatly abandoned, they will know, and it gives a bad image of UE. Besides, if you look hard enough, almost nothing is truely abandoned. Someone somewhere owns it, you never know when they might get the idea to check on it.

Thses are good points, but I stand by my previous statements. Generally, the only time I fuck up is when I don't listen to my instincts. If I'm wrong, oh well. If my precious $5 lock is smashed, I know not to go in and I've just saved myself and all other UEs the trouble of being caught in an active site and risking prosecution. As for the fingerprint thing, that's pretty damn unlikely. It's just not worth the trouble to catch some douchebag tresspasser/vandal. If I killed somebody, it might be a different story. Besides, without a suspect, fingerprints are virtually useless (don't you watch CSI?

). I admit that this is "on the line", but hey, that's what we're here to discuss.

ShadowBearer · Post by **ShadowBearer** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:21 am

I can only imagine the call to the police... "Hey someone may have been in my abandoned building..can you guys come dust for prints?"
Never going to happen.

caver · Post by **caver** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:21 pm

From:
http://dictionary.law.com/definition2.a ... C%7C%7C%7C

breaking and entering
n. 1) the criminal act of entering a residence or other enclosed property through the slightest amount of force (even pushing open a door), without authorization. If there is intent to commit a crime, this is burglary. If there is no such intent, the breaking and entering alone is probably at least illegal trespass, which is a misdemeanor crime. 2) the criminal charge for the above.

ShadowBearer · Post by **ShadowBearer** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:54 pm

And if nothing is taken or vandalized the police are not going to come and dust for prints.

Sertile · Post by **Sertile** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:44 am

I could personally care less what other people do. If some hoodlum teenager wants to come along and pry a door open that I can later use to stealthily infiltrate, more power to him. I myself adhere to the leave no trace philosophy, however. I treat my buildings like I would a cave, and make an attempt to leave no evidence that I was ever there, though I'll be the first to admit this is sometimes impossible. I don't do this for legal purposes, I just don't want to sully anything for anyone else who may come along later, or spoil it for myself on return visits.

In regards to the whole dusting for prints scenario, I doubt most people would bother even if there was theft or vandalism involved. Seriously, just think about how many places we've been to theat were already vandalized (ie pretty much all of them). No one seems to care, nor should they really. While it's true that very few places are ever totally abandoned, the buildings aren't going to be used as-is regardless.

Any of the buildings downtown would have to undergo serious renovation work before being converted into stores/lofts/what have you, and this would most likely include gutting the interiors and replacing everything in site. Therefore, it really isn't in the owner's best interest to care one way or the other about grafitti, beer cans, or broken windows, not that I endorse any of those things.

Grey · Post by **Grey** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:29 am

I agree with the leave no trace for the most part...but also agree with gimpface on trusting your instincts.

Underground Ozarks

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